"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
08/16/2019 at 14:49 • Filed to: None
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"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
08/16/2019 at 14:49 • Filed to: None | 1
| 16 |
Prohibiting a member of the United States House of Representatives from visiting you country-as a friendly, and allied nation- is an aberrant insult to the US, freedom of expression, and basic diplomacy. Everyone should be up in arms, both inside the US government and at any national government that has any sort of tie to Israel as an ally or friendly na
ti
on.
Are the politics of the congresswomen in question outlandish, and combative? yes.
But in the real world, full of adults, when a politician from a friendly nation pays you a visit, you welcome them with open doors.
Even if you hate every single fiber of their body....
OPPOsaurus WRX
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 14:57 |
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politicians ar e not mentally adults.
ttyymmnn
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 15:05 |
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Apparently, American citizens of the opposition party no longer have freedom of movement. This is utterly appalling.
For Sweden
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 15:07 |
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It’s bad and depressingly normal. The Americans have blocked entry by Knesset members in the past: https://www.haaretz.com/1.5204446
They should have been granted entry, even though the group sponsoring the visit publishes pro-n eo Nazi articles. Defeat your enemies with kindness whenever possible.
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Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 15:08 |
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Yeah, but at least we can stop pretending the right wings of both countries aren’t oppressive nationalists.
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Spanfeller is a twat
> For Sweden
08/16/2019 at 15:45 |
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Thats awful
ZHP Sparky, the 5th
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 16:04 |
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Agreed with your take entirely. Also takes us to new lows that the US president lobbied a foreign government to block US representatives from visiting that country.
If they did it of their own accord, sure it’s shitty but at least it’s all on them. But this degrades the presidency significantly. But hey, given how low we are does it really matter any more?
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> ttyymmnn
08/16/2019 at 16:04 |
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A foreign country decides who they do or do not admit into their country.
It has nothing to do with political party or position, although one would hope that liberty informs those decisions...
On the other hand opposing or insulting any nation and it’s people might tend to cause diplomatic consequences.
Someone that has freedom of speech may be allowed to speak without prosecution under the law... but other people, and by extension groups of people, are also free to react within their purview to that speech.
American citizenship holds no guarantee for standing outside the United States of America.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 16:15 |
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Is it just me, or does nobody else think this is pretty mild repercussion for insulting a foreign nation and it’s people?
In previous centuries, diplomats, emissaries, and many more have been killed or taken as political prisoners for less.
Not that it is relative... I am not saying that.
But at what point does a nation have sovereignty and keep their own council as to who they let in or do not let in to their country? That can be based on public office holders of foreign nations with positions of elected office making insulting statements under color of policy-making authority.
Since when do ideas conveyed by words or actions not have consequences? Freedom from persecution for those words is not equivalent to freedom from consequence for them.
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ZHP Sparky, the 5th
> ZHP Sparky, the 5th
08/16/2019 at 16:16 |
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I will add that I had a little difficulty processing the later developments wherein the Israeli government agreed to allow entry to Rep. Tlaib on humanitarian grounds solely to visit her grandmother, under the condition that she doesn’t make any statements regarding boycotting Israel during such a visit. At first it was surprising to hear that she rejected that offer – if she wants to see her ailing grandmother so badly, to the point where it sounded like a political play (perhaps it still is, at least partially ).
But at the same time – if I were a member of the US House Foreign Affairs Committee, and wanted to visit a foreign nation that receives significant amounts of US aid funds I too would expect to be treated just as any other US rep visiting in their official capacity without restriction – and if a government, clearly as a political move only agreed to allow entry NOT in my capacity as a US representative, and laid out specific requirements on what I can or cannot do while visiting, I’d most likely want to tell them to go to hell too.
I heard her uncle and grandmother had suggested that they
could visit Ms. Tlaib in the US instead – hopefully that works out. And
hopefully our dear leader doesn’t dial this mess up even further by refusing
entry to the US to her family members.
Also how does this play with the stupid “send them back!” Trumpian talking point? Wasn’t he just weeks ago promoting her to go “back” to where her people came from, and now he doesn’t want her to be able to go? Mixed messages, bro!
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Spanfeller is a twat
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/16/2019 at 16:22 |
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I’m pretty certain that the criticisms that the congresswomen have of Israel concern its government ; not the people. But I also believe that they’re overzealous in their criticism.
In the end, they didn’t even plan on speaking with Israeli politicians, and in previous trips to palestine other US Representatives flew in without issue.
Plus, if people in Israel have an issue with those women, they should be able to express it; at the airport, in the streets, etc.
duurtlang
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/16/2019 at 16:25 |
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In a strong democracy you welcome in even the harshest of critics. Especially democratically elected officials from friendly nations. You might strongly oppose their point of view, but in a democracy that is okay and it is something you can talk about.
Obviously there is a line, somewhere. I would argue someone who incites actual violence is someone you want to keep out. However, the politicians in this case are part of the left wing of a rather centrist political party from a very friendly state and they are not spewing violence or hate or anything like that. You can strongly disagree with them, but outright banning them from entering the country? It says a lot about the state Israel is in right now.
Imagine France or Germany or the UK blocking the entry of Republican elected officials, for political reasons .
MrSnrub
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/16/2019 at 16:28 |
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I think the outrage is more about Trump telling Netanyahu to do it.
What statements are they making that are “insulting”? Can the Israeli government be criticized without being insulted?
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ZHP Sparky, the 5th
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/16/2019 at 16:37 |
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Note the House Committee Rep. Tlaib in particular sits on, and the amounts of foreign aid Israel receives from the US. So firstly in her official capacity she absolutely has a right to be able to visit and witness the situation on the ground in Israel. Add to that, criticism of certain facets of Israeli life or political decisions of the ruling party is not criticism of Israel as a whole, its right to existence, or “anti-semetic” as people like our president (of all people, the balls) have suggested.
On top of that - I could live with a foreign government known to be shitty doing shitty things. What I can’t accept is the US president lobbying said foreign government to being shitty by denying access to a sitting member of congress under his own administration.
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ttyymmnn
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/16/2019 at 16:58 |
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Of course, Israel, or any country, is within their rights to limit entry. But for the president to use the power of his office to publicly push for the exclusion of political enemies smacks of totalitarianism.
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MrSnrub
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 17:08 |
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Related, a n interesting read:
https://www.thenation.com/article/israel-tlaib-omar-travel-ban-trump/
DipodomysDeserti
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/16/2019 at 19:15 |
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To clarify the situation, Talib was initially denied entry because she encouraged a boycott of Israel. Israel passed a law last year declaring that economic isolation of Israel as an act of war. It’s not necessarily her criticism s that got her banned, but her participation in a boycott of the nation.
I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, but that’s why she was initially denied entry.
I’m sure Netanyahu is pissed Trump tweeted at him, as now it makes him look weak. He would have denied them entry all on his own.